Foam Alone
Today we made a big step forward--we started the installation of our sprayed in place, close-cell, polyurethane spray foam in our gutted downstairs space. This is not our first experience with foam--About a year and half ago we installed it upstairs as well.
The upstairs installation was a trial of sorts--Closed cell foam is not inexpensive, and, quite frankly, I wasn't sure it was worth the expense...As you can tell by the picture, we felt the foam was more than worth the extra cost and decided to use it downstairs as well...
All through this renovation, we have taken steps to create a more energy efficient home and the foam has certainly lowered our gas and electric bills...before foam we were running extremely high PG&E bills during the winter months and still freezing our pa-tooties off. After foam (and some other energy efficient items) we have seen a decrease of 50%-even with the downstairs gutted. Granted this was a mild winter (although tons of rain), it nevertheless is a significant savings since energy prices are also higher than last year.
But it is not the savings alone that made us go back to foam...the house is incredibly comfortable--at least the upstairs portion--and we expect nothing less of the downstairs when it is finished. Closed cell foam also creates its own vapor barrier, provides structural rigidity to the old walls, doesn't absorb moisture (like rodent piss) like fiberglass, provides no nutritional value to insects, provides good sound protection, and is considered a "green" product to boot.
We have also been quite happy with our installer (American Services in Dublin CA --ask for James) and the product itself--which is Insulstar from North Carolina Foam Industries (NCFI) http://www.insulstar.com/ . Both of these companies have been top notch--with the NCFI rep (Jim Francisco) keeping in touch with us regarding our process, answering our questions, and providing invaluable information. James Morsehead, from American Services was also fantastic--providing thoughtful suggestions and ideas--while at the same time not trying to sell me things that were not needed. I recommend both to anyone interested.
posted by Patrick at 7:57 PM
5 Comments:
Patrick -
Great work! I admire your courage.
I have long been tempted to try the foam insulation on houses we've renovated or built in the northeast (the latest is at http://www.cpday.com ). It seems to have all the advantages that you mentioned.
I now have another opportunity, this time to use foam on the unfinished lower level of the Shore House. But one thing worries me: If I later want to add utilities (water, heat, data cables, etc.) in the walls, won't it be a major job if the walls are filled with foam? I can always fish or poke things through fiberglass. It seems like I am doing that pretty routinely.
Chris
Chris—
There are pros and cons to every decision—one “con” regarding foam is what you mentioned—it is hard to fish wires through it. I tried to minimize this as best as I could by:
1. Planning carefully—I have “overkilled” the number of electrical outlets and placed media boxes any where I might even think we could use one…I hope this will eliminate any future needs for fishing wires. These media boxes are connected to “smurf” tubing which either goes to the attic or the crawl space. The smurf tubing is covered over by the foam, but one can pull wire via the crawl space or attic.
2. Putting in chases. If you look at the previous pictures, we put in several chases in which to pull media wire. Up in our attic we have a “structured media center” in which phone, computer, tv, audio, etc can go to a centralized location and then using “star” routing they can go through any chase to any media box.
3. Putting in flexible conduit to each outlet box. Each electrical box has an access via flexible conduit (without any wires in it) that either goes to the crawl space or attic—so we could pull electrical wires to a box, if needed.
4. As a last resort, drywall is fairly easy and cheap to repair. If needed, one could remove the drywall, channel through the foam, run wire, and fill the channel up with foam from a spray can—but as I said, with the above precautions, this would be a last resort.
Patrick -
That is a compelling case for foam. You certainly seem to have the issues covered.
I've been using the Leviton structured media boxes and even included "future use" conduits in our last project ( http://www.cpday.com ). Media and technology have changed so much in the last decade that it has been hard to predict what will be needed. Fortunately, 802.11x for data, Insteon for automation & control, and reliable cordless phone systems are all wireless. That means more flexibility, more ad hoc applications and (important to me) less need to plan.
That only leaves water, air and gas. Now that I think about it, when I need to re-route or add any of those fixing the sheetrock is the least part of the challenge.
Is there a "National Sprayed Foam Association" or some similar source to help me locate reputable contractors?
Chris (CPDay)
Patrick-
I spent some time w/ the NCFI site. Thanks for the lead!
Chris (CPDay)
I would like to thank you for recommending American Services Co.
They just finished my foam installation today so I can't speak to cost savings yet, but I am looking forward to a more comfortable winter in our over-windowed mid-century modern. Doug and James we're a genuine pleasure to work with. James Morshead is an an extremely knowledgeable resource. He offered invaluable information and prevented several potentially costly mistakes on my part. I had several contractors quote my project but ASC, in my opinion, was only one to earn my business.
Finally,my installers,Augie & Jesus were fantastic.. They were conscientious,thorough and responding to my questionsand concerns with great paitence.
I'll provide an update once I've received a couple of months of PG&E bills. I still need to install new windows & siding before we get real weather.
Paul
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